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Guns_and_butter_logoLUMPENPROLETARIAT—On today’s edition of Guns and Butter host Bonnie Faulkner presented Part 5 of a fascinating series of interviews with Kevin Ryan on his book, Another Nineteen: Investigating Legitimate 9/11 Suspects. [1]

By now, it’s quite well understood that the official 9/11 Commission Report was fatally flawed, depriving the American people of a sincere investigation into the crimes of 9/11, which have been used as continuing justification for endless war everywhere, in other words, endless justification for U.S. imperialism justified by fears of synthetic threats, giving new meaning to the term manufacturing consent.

Kevin Ryan‘s book, Another Nineteen, provides a comprehensive study of the current body of research on the prime suspects, who deserve to be investigated for their apparent roles in carrying out the crimes of 9/11Listen (and/or download) here. [2]



[Working draft transcript of actual radio broadcast by Messina for Lumpenproletariat and Guns and Butter.]

GUNS AND BUTTER—[31 OCT 2016]  “This is Guns and Butter[theme music]

KEVIN RYAN:  “The fireproofing upgrades were very coincidentally similar; they meshed up up almost exactly to the areas of impact, failure, and fire. on 9/11.  So, they had 110 floors in the North Tower, for example.  Only eight of those floors had been updated fully for fireproofing.  Now, those were the exact eight floors where the plane hit and where the fire occurred and where the failure was said to have initiated.”  (c. 1:06)

BONNIE FAULKNER:  “I’m Bonnie Faulkner.

“Today on Guns and ButterKevin Ryan.  Today’s show:  ‘Another Nineteen, Part 5‘.

Kevin Ryan was site manager of a division of Underwriters Laboratories, or UL.  As a manager at Underwriters, he began in 2003 to question the World Trade Center investigation being conducted by UL and the U.S. National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) and UL’s work to insure the fire resistance of the buildings.

Ryan lost his position at UL for making his questions public.

“He was a founding member of the 9/11 Working Group of Bloomington and Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice.  He now serves as co-editor of the Journal of 9/11 Studies.  His latest book is Another Nineteen: Investigating Legitimate 9/11 Suspects.

“Today, we discuss Rudy Giuliani and the World Trade CenterDwayne Andrews and SAIC, and Porter Goss and the cover-up.

Kevin Ryan, welcome.”

KEVIN RYAN:  “Thank you, Bonnie.”  (c. 2:12)


Rudy Giuliani (b. 1944)

BONNIE FAULKNER:  “You began your chapter, ‘Rudy Giuliani and the World Trade Center’, by mentioning the fact that Giuliani gained national notoriety from the events of 9/11, that his approval rating shot up to 79% from 34%, and that, in fact, he was named Man of the Year by Time magazine in 2001.  What can you tell us about his family background, ties to the mob, and his early work history?”

KEVIN RYAN:  “Well, Rudy’s father was convicted of robbery and, then, sent to Sing Sing prison.  And that’s well-known, and also the fact that, afterward, he worked for a mafia loan shark operation.

“Rudy’s uncle, on his mother’s side, his mother’s brother, also worked for a loan shark operation.  And their son, his uncle’s son, was a stone-cold gangster.  So, it’s clear that Rudy’s family had a lot of ties to the mob.  And that was clear, given some other folks, that worked with Rudy in the years even when he was mayor of New York City.

“But Rudy, like Dick and Don, Dick Cheney and Don Rumsfeld, he got off to a very quick start in the politics of certain things.  And at the age of 29 he graduated from law school; and he was appointed right away as being in charge of the cases, the enforcement, of the Knapp Commission investigation of police corruption in New York City.  And, for some reason, the indictments and the convictions didn’t end up—and the corruption—actually, being reduced.  That, actually, continued, in particular drug-related corruption.  (c. 4:02)

“But, whether or not Giuliani was seen as doing a good there job or not, he was appointed, shortly after that, to be associate deputy attorney general in the Ford administration, reporting to deputy attorney general Harold Tyler.

“So, in that role, he was basically mentored by Harold Tyler, who was a very powerful man.  And he was, also, even at that time, warning about domestic terrorism and recommending that intelligence collection policies be relaxed.

“So, Rudy was on board right away with a lot of these folks who worked in the Ford administration, at a very young age.  And, in the Reagan administration, when he was only 37, he was appointed to the third-highest position, the associate attorney general, where he was responsible for overseeing the Department of Corrections and the Drug Enforcement agency.  (c. 4:59)

“And that’s interesting because, back then, the Drug Enforcement Agency, was involved with helping the CIA run cocaine into the United States to fund the Nicaraguan contra effort.  This was reported by Gary Webb, the journalist.

“But Rudy, then, as the man in charge of the Drug Enforcement Administration, would have had some complicity in all of that.  And, so, he had a very interesting background in the Justice Department.

[On Rudy Giuliani and Promise software]

“And I do know that, while he was there, he also chaired a committee, that gave oversight to the government’s use of a software called PROMIS, which has a lot of intersting implications to 9/11.  It was once used by Oliver North to track terrorist threats.  Basically, it was a database.  PROMIS was a database.  (c. 5:51)

“And that’s interesting, given that British foreign secretary Robert Cook after 9/11 said that that’s what Al Qaeda means.  Al Qaeda, actually, means data base, according to Robert Cook.

“And, so, this PROMIS software, being a data base tracking terrorist threats, is very interesting.  And there’s been a lot of comments about this software.  And, so, Giuliani’s connection to that is very intruiging.  I’d say.”


Daniel Casolaro (1947-1991)

BONNIE FAULKNER:  “And, then, of course, you mention in your book journalist Daniel Casolaro was investigating with regard to the Department of Justice and PROMIS software as well.  And he reached an untimely end.  Didn’t he?”

KEVIN RYAN:  “Yes, he did, much like Gary Webb.  It was said that Danny Casolaro committed suicide.  But his family didn’t believe it.  And the evidence points to murder.  (c. 6:44)

“But Danny Casolaro was an independent journalist, who was investigating a wide-ranging criminal enterprise, that involved PROMIS.  It involved organised crime, the Bank of Credit and Commerce International, which is the well known terrorist financing network led by the CIA and some oil-rich countries in the Middle East.

“And Giuliani was involved in all of these things: organised crime, oversight of PROMIS, oversight of the enforcement actions for the Bank of Credit and Commerce International (BCCI).”

“You know; and all this stuff kind of wrapped up into, I think Danny Casolaro called it, the octopus.  He called it this criminal network, that somehow is involved in a number of things, that you know circumvented democracy and had to do with drug-running and breaking the law in a widespread way.

“So, Giuliani was touching, in his career, all of these things: PROMIS, BCCI, organised crime.  As far as PROMIS went, the Justice Department, when Giuliani worked there, actually, illegally distributed the PROMIS software to foreign governments.  So, Giuliani, being in charge of the oversight of the PROMIS committee, while this Justice Department was illegally distributing this software, which ended up being an espionage software as well—when it was installed in embassies in foreign governments, it would capture data and send it back to the United States in a covert way.

“So, Giuliani was appointed U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York.  And, you know, this is when he started gaining notoriety because he was said to be tough on white collar crime.  And he was often photographed busting these big shots.

“He led the enforcement actions against Ivan Boesky and Michael Milken, for example, insider trading, Wall Street figures.  He’s often handcuffing these mob bosses as well and business leaders.

“And, then later, what people don’t know is that Giuliani would drop the charges quietly.  His office would never actually prosecute these people.  He would just make a big show out of it, which is again related to 9/11, in that it’s clear that Giuliani gained primarily this political fame from 9/11, which is what he really sought throughout his career more than anything else.”  (c. 9:17)

[On Rudy Giuliani and foreknowledge of the crimes of 9/11]

BONNIE FAULKNER:  “And, then, subsequently, BCCI became a client of Rudy Giuliani’s law firm.  Right?”

KEVIN RYAN:  “That’s exactly right.  And, in this book, I make clear that there are quite a few connections to BCCI and these alternate suspects.  But Giuliani, as you said, he oversaw these enforcement actions against BCCI when it was shut down and the crimes were laid bare.

“And, then, he went to work for White & Case, which is a major law firm in New York City.  And BCCI was one of its clients.  Giuliani worked for that firm.  When he was running for mayor of New York City the first time, it was revealed that his firm had represented BCCI as well as Manuel Noriega, the Panamanian dictator, who at the time was seen as a bad guy, despite the fact that he was, clearly, working in partnership with George H. W. Bush, and had been.  Author Russ Baker made a lot of interesting points about that relationship.  (c. 10:26)

But Giuliani seems to have been a deep state operative, or at least connected very closely to a lot of deep state operations over the years, abd BCCI being one of them.”

[On Rudy Giuliani’s apparently prearranged post-9/11 photo ops]

BONNIE FAULKNER:  “Now, on September 11th, 2001, Rudy Giuliani, of course, was mayor of New York City.  Did Rudy Giuliani and his staff at World Trade Center 7 have foreknowledge of the collapse of both Twin Towers and the World Trade Center 7?”

KEVIN RYAN:  “Yes.  They, in fact, did have foreknowledge.  And, so, I try to track this down a little bit.  But Giuliani stated very clearly that he was in the World Trade Center complex at the time.  He told Peter Jennings of ABC News afterward that he was told beforehand that the towers were going to collapse, which is interesting because none of the fire chiefs, or the building professionals, ever thought that those towers were gonna collapse beforehand.  That had never occurred before.  And, pointedly, no such thing has ever occurred since.  A building has never suffered a global collapse from fire.  But, yet, Giuliani was told that was what was going to happen.

“And, you know, he had also, Giuliani had also told the lie, that was repeated by Condoleezza Rice and Donald Rumsfeld, that no one had ever predicted airliner crashes into the World Trade Center.  But that was so obviously untrue that Brian Michael Jenkins, of Krull Associates, for example, one of the suspects in the book had considered exactly that sort of scenario.  And it was widely known they considered airliner impacts.  (c. 12:04)

“But, like you said, Giuliani’s staff, from the Department of Buildings and engineers from the city were in World Trade Center Building 7.  And they were telling people from the fire department that the building was going to collapse.  Building 7 was going to be taken down.  Clearly, there was foreknowledge.

“And one of the people, that was involved with it was a deputy director of the OEM, Richard Rotanz.  And he was behind, not only that claim that Building 7 was going to collapse—now, no one would ever be able to predict this, that Building 7 was going to collapse, given the official account, which is just a very skewered and convoluted story—but, somehow, Richard Rotanz knew.  He also claimed that there was a third hijacked plane headed for the area, which was the alleged reason that the OEM was evacuated that morning.”  (c. 13:02)

BONNIE FAULKNER:  “And what was Rudy Giuliani doing on the day of September 11th?  And what was going on in the lobby of the North Tower?”

KEVIN RYAN:  “Well, Giuliani was, for the most part, wandering around the site of the World Trade Center.  You know.  He happened to be there, I guess, that morning.  And, with him was his fire commissioner and his police commissioner Bernard Kerik, who’s a very interesting person.  We may have mentioned him earlier because Bernard Kerik went to Iraq to work for Paul Bremer during the occupation.

“But Kerik was the New York City Police Commissioner.  And Kerik and Giuliani were walking around.  They moved away from the danger in every case.  They were not brought in to any immediate danger.  But the director for the Office of Emergency Management of New York City, the OEM, was Richard Sheirer.  And he was in the lobby in the North Tower, as you said, with a number of high-level government employees.  And that would include John Odermatt of the OEM some people from the intelligence division of the New York City Police Department.”  (c. 14:15)

“So, here are these people who were just hanging around in the lobby at the North Tower, while the towers were burning.  And nobody knows what they were really doing there.  They were, of course, supposed to be in the Office of Emergency Management in Building 7.  But, like I said, that building was evacuated.  Sheirer never even went to the OEM at all.  And that’s one thing the 9/11 Commission could not figure out, why Sheirer would not go his own command center in the middle of an emergency, that was built exactly for this sort of crisis.  They just hung out in the lobby of the North Tower.  Luckily, for them, they were able to get out of the way before the building came down.  That was the second building that collapsed, though, of course.  (c. 15:00)

“But what Giuliani did is he is able to avoid danger almost entirely.  He and Kerick wandered around the outskirts of the area.  And Giuliani happened upon, just very coincidentally, his personal biographer, who happened to have a cameraman with him, somebody who had written a very flattering biography of Giuliani.  Giuliani just ran into him in the middle of this crisis.  And that’s what led to this series of johnny-on-the-spot interviews with Giuliani during the crisis, which made him out to be this great hero and decision-maker.  It was almost as if people knew to be ready to have Giuliani presented in such a way because it’s just too convenient otherwise.”

[theme music]

[On structural engineer Richard Tomasetti, of Thornton Tomasetti, who investigated the Oklahoma City bombing, worked at NIST, and was involved in recycling the World Trade Center steel, i.e., destroying material evidence of the crimes of 9/11; and AMEC Corporation subcontractors’ associations with organised crime.]

BONNIE FAULKNER:  “I’m speaking with chemist, research scientist, and author Kevin Ryan.  Today’s show:  ‘Another Nineteen, Part 5‘.  I’m Bonnie Faulkner. 

“And, then, after the buildings were demolished, who was in charge at ground zero.  And who was Richard Tomasetti?”

KEVIN RYAN:  “Well, Richard Tomasetti is half of the leaders of a company called Thornton & Tomasetti.  And his partner Charles Thornton was one of a small group of engineers, that had been asked to investigate terrorism over the years.  He was one of four, who investigated the Oklahoma City bombing, for example.  And, then, he became a member of the NIST Advisory Committee for the World Trade Center.

“But his partner, Richard Tomasetti was a man, who was the man who was, ultimately, said to have made the decision to recycle all the steel from ground zero.  Now, if people don’t remember, the fire engineering community and the victims’ families were outraged at the destruction of the evidence at ground zero and the speed, with which Giuliani pressed everyone to get the evidence of the debris out of the area, to move it as quickly as possible.

“But Tomasetti made this decision, he said, to recycle all the steel.  And he had made some weak claim later that, if he had known where the investigation was going to go, he would have made a different decision.  But I can’t imagine what he thought the investigation was going to be about.  The destruction of the buildings was an unprecedented event, and three times over.  (c. 17:30)

“Really, before any of the investigators got to ground zero, as the U.S House Committee on Science reported, the most important steel evidence was removed from the site and shipped away to be recycled.  And Tomasetti was behind that.”

[(c. 21:00)  On the fireproofing of the World Trade Center floors, which coincide with the 9/11 planing impact zone]

[(c. 22:15)  On Dwayne Andrews (of SAIC), a protégé of Dick Cheney and the 1980s U.S. House Intelligence Committee]

[(c. 53:15)  On hard drives recovered with evidence for insider trading related to the crimes of 9/11]


[SNIP]  (c. 54:15)


Porter Goss (b. 1938)

BONNIE FAULKNER:  “Now, Porter Goss went on to become the head of the CIA.  As head of the CIA, was Porter Goss known for blocking investgations?”

KEVIN RYAN:  “Yes, he was.  He was a Bush administration cheerleader.  And he was nominated and put in the position of CIA leader by Dick Cheney.  And he was unwilling to pursue anything, that would cause problems with the vice president’s office.

“He told the CIA, when he was made that director, that their job was to support the Bush administration and its policies.  Now, one would think that the CIA would be non-partisan.  But that, of course, was not the case.  And it certainly was not under Porter Goss.  There were senior CIA officers, who had opposed the Iraq War.  But Goss was strongly in favor of it.  And they were, essentially, telling us afterwards that there were no dissenting opinions allowed when Goss was running the CIA.

“Basically, he was also known for blocking investigations.  He blocked investigations into the Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse scandal and into the Bush administration links into the Iraqi Ahmed Chalabi.  Anything the Bush administration wanted to do, he supported.

“So, it turns out that this guy, who led the first investigation into 9/11, the inquiry, really, was just a man working for the Bush administration.”

BONNIE FAULKNER:  “Well, Kevin Ryan, I want to thank you for writing such a terrific book.”

KEVIN RYAN:  “Thank you, Bonnie.  I really appreciate your time.”

[theme music]

BONNIE FAULKNER:  “I’ve been speaking with Kevin Ryan.  Today’s show has been:  ‘Another Nineteen, Part 5’.

Kevin Ryan earned a B.S. in chemistry from Indiana University.  And has worked as a chemistry laboratory manager for many years in Bloomington, Indiana.  He is the former site manager for Environmental Health Laboratories in South Bend, Indiana, a division of Underwriters Laboratories, or UL.

Kevin Ryan is co-editor of the Journal of 9/11 Studies, which publishes peer-reviewed research, and a founding member of Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice.  Visit Journalof911Studies.com.  That’s Journal of—the numbers—911 Studies dot com.  Many of his articles can be found at ULTruth.com.  That’s U-L-T-R-U-T-H dot com.  His new book, Another Nineteen: Investigating Legitimate 9/11 Suspects, can be found at Another19.com.  That’s Another—the numbers—911 dot com.

[SNIP]  (c. 59:59)

Learn more at GUNS AND BUTTER.

[This transcript will be expanded as time constraints, and/or demand or resources, allow.]


Also see this relevant Lumpenproletariat article on 9/11, featuring a transcript of Media Roots Radio, which your author originally transcribed for Media Roots in 2012:

  • Historical Archive: “MR Radio Transcript: 9/11 Coincidence Theory”, 25 OCT 2015.


[1]  For more information on important research by Kevin Ryan, M.A., also see:

[2]  Terrestrial radio broadcast, 94.1 FM (KPFA, Berkeley, CA) with online simulcast and digital archiving:  Guns and Butter, this one-hour broadcast hosted by regular host Bonnie Faulkner, Wednesday, 31 JUL 2016, 13:00 PDT.

See other Guns and Butter broadcasts:


[Rudy Giuliani image used via Fair Use.]

[Image entitled “CasolaroDanny” by unknown sources (A, B, and C) used via Fair Use]

[CIA image of Porter Goss is in the public domain.]

[3 SEP 2016]

[Last modified  09:29 PDT  7 SEP 2016]